Re: Arabeyes Charter Proposal

[Mohammed Elzubeir <elzubeir at arabeyes dot org>]

On Thu, Mar 14, 2002 at 09:12:39PM -0800, Nadim Shaikli wrote:

> So what about the responsibilities and accountability, that were talked about,
> when delivery dates and deadlines can't be generated or abided by.  As for
> having things to do in your life - we all do (its called time-management
> and prioritization).

I have to agree with that. If you find that is lacking in the charter,
please do provide proposals for amendments. The whole exercise is to get
something that is closest to what we can agree on. Obviously there will
be things that will not be to your liking or someone else's liking.. but
let's make the best out of it. 

> As for why don't I assume that - how can I assume it when its possibly not
> true (can everyone state that its not so and declare and give their word
> to that effect in 100% honesty ?).  Why would it matter who's leading a

This may have come up because of an earlier discussion I have had with
Nadim (and Isam) and I did say that personal gain is an issue. I think
Nadim has misinterpreted what I mean by that, so let me clarify that.
Personal gain does not go outside being recognized within a very small
community for your effort. It is a 'by-product' and by no means is it
the motivation that drives me, neither does it ever dictate my course of
action in any situation.

100% honesty? I don't think, in any comment/message I have ever made,
there was anything less than a 100% dose of truth. If you have doubts in
that, then it is something I simply cannot do anything about. I know
that this may not be directed at me personally, but this is my take on
it. 

With all honest and with a 100% of truth, I have no hidden agenda, no
desires to base my involvement in this project to be a platform to take
over the world;) and neither do I think (like Chahine has pointed out)
it is significant enough to make it such a big deal.

This is not to say that Arabeyes impact on the Arab world is not
significant, but let us put it this way, Linux' impact on the Arab world
is rather minor, let alone a slice of that which goes to Arabeyes. I
mean, seriously, when I say personal gain, it is within a very confined
restricted circle. How many know the names of the people who run the
Gnome project, or the KDE project? How many know the names of the kde
i18n coordinator? Yes, they have 'coordinators'. These are huge projects
(compared to Arabeyes) but yet the names of the people are not so well
known outside of small circles. Now, imagine how much smaller Arabeyes'
circles are..

> project when work needs to be done and completed.  Again let's revert to
> honesty here, a license issue that should have been resolved with a 10 minute
> vote results in alienating one person and the creation of a
> hierarchy/label/etc without the resolution of what really needed to be
> resolved -- the need for more results and more on-the-ground work.

The license issue (which btw, I am _still_ waiting for your move on) is
not why this charter is here. But, surely with the charter in place, the
license issue would have been resolved in less than 10 minutes. 

> linus has the last word because he is the most technically "enabled" one to

No, he has the last word because he wrote the original kernel. Who's
more technically "enabled" is a debatable issue, but the fact that he
wrote the original kernel is not debatable.

> make that decision - I think you are confusing technical decisions (of which I
> have no problem saying "Best idea should ALWAYS win") and simply mandating

With no structure, the loudest idea is the one that wins. We can say,
this is the ideal result, but in practice that is not what happens. It
is the one with the loudest voice who's ideas win.

> and reaping fruits (if any).  I had an issue with Mohammed when he saw no
> problem in the ITP (or whatever it was) article that simply stated his name in
> relation to the project and he didn't see fault with it, implying
> 

Heh.. okay, let me say this for the record. First of all, I explicitly
listed everyone's name as "those individuals were the ones who
pariticpated in answering the questions", and I listed it in
alphabetical order (based on last name). I did send them back, and did
make mention of the fact that the people who participated in answering
the questions were not mentioned. All I got back was a thank you for
your feedback.

Now, I _personally_ don't have an issue with them saying "spokesperson"
for the group. Sorry, I don't mind it, and I don't find fault in it.
However, it does upset me that most of the quotes were not my own words.
Now, ACN like any other magazine, expects an 'organization' to have some
form of structure or the other, and I can see why they made the
assumption that I was the spokesperson for the project (since I intiated
contact with them, and continued to do so). They did not call me the
project owner, or anything more than a spokesperson. 

I am sorry if it made you feel unhappy, but I did not write the article.
There were many mistakes with the article, and I was not about to list
them all on the main page of the site. If you saw an issue with that,
you should have come forward with it _immediately_ then, instead of
making it build-up inside and then have it blow up at a later time. You
should know me better than that, and since I personally don't really
care (I really don't), I would have added that comment for you. Although
I do NOT find fault in it calling me spokesperson, and neither do I find
that implying that Arabeyes == Mohammed (since when did a spokesperson
of a project mean it is that person? if anything, that would give me the
impression that the project is large enough to need a spokesperson), I
would have entertained your request right away. 

> 
> I pointed this out and nothing was done - even the blurb on the arabeyes page
> noted the correction of number of volunteers, but nothing about the other 3 of
> us and the various volunteers.  Mind you Isam and myself also labored in
> writing a great deal of what was finally submitted.  I brushed it off, but
> after all this stuff (titles, etc), you want me to ASSUME what now ?  I'm

Hrmm. I really don't kow what to do here. In many cases, you were
completely against names, but here you expected me to mention names. I
_want_ to list the names of the core members on the site, but it is your
resistence to the very idea that has kept me from doing so. I don't
recall you 'pointing it out', in more than "tell them to mention our
names next time", and I did exactly that.  

So now you are doubting my integrity? No, I don't intend to put words in
anyone's mouth, but that is a stab in the chest to me. There are times
when I do things that may be interpreted in a negative way.. but I have
expectations from everyone here, and I feel that you have failed me. I
expect from you to point these things immediately, and not let it sit
and sit and sit.. and now you doubt my intentions and my true
motivation? An oversight on my part for things that I don't think about,
is all it is. I am not perfect, neither will I ever be (duh).. but
because we are a team, when I slip, I expect you to have my back, and
then tell me how I can avoid it in the future.

Don't brush things like that off. You hurt me a lot more than if you
would have pointed it out.

> of "I'll do whatever is needed to be done" is a million times better than
> being chained to a category and being unproductful.  If you've ever

It is not being chained. You do whatever is necessary while maintaining
an additional responsibility. Oh, well, I've said that so many times I
should have a macro that outputs the sentence ;) 

> indeed irrelevant since there are 4 members and 2 already said yes, a NO
> from Isam will mean its a tie-breaker which you/Mohammed will decide on,

Only the GC has the parting vote, Chahine is obviously not the GC, so
there is no need for the 'you/Mohammed' here.

> my thoughts).  I worked DAMN hard to get this off the ground and I really

We all worked 'damn' hard to get this off the ground. We all sacrificed
percious hours and sleepless nights at times. Do I think we deserve a
pat on the back for our work? Why not? But I surely don't expect it. 

later
-- 
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| Mohammed Elzubeir    | Visit us at:                 |
|                      |  http://www.arabeyes.org/    |
| Arabeyes Project     | Homepage:                    |
| Unix the 'right' way |  http://fakkir.net/~elzubeir/|
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