Re: to plone or not to plone

[Nadim Shaikli <shaikli at yahoo dot com>]

--- Mohammed Elzubeir <elzubeir at arabeyes dot org> wrote:
> All I can say is, the number of ready-made solutions for Plone far
> outweigh any amount of 'patches' or help we have gotten or we will
> get for our php site.

The point being made is not so much how much help we've gotten but
the fact that if/when push comes to shove enough people knew the
underlying language and were savvy enough to get around the code to
get something done.  The concern is shear speculation, I'd be the
first one to admit, but I have no interest in Python (for instance)
so that would rule me out from any future web changes/developments
and I'm sure this would apply to others - so is this worth it ?

In terms of Plone solutions - do they have something similar to
our 'vote' and our 'finance' pages ?  Are votes stored (in case of
a recount) and are the finances traceable, etc ?

> And since you are bringing all this to the table, let me put out my
> plan. I would like to move out PHP site to Plone. Wiki to Zwiki. CVS to
> SVN. Authentication for all would go through LDAP. Zope/Plone offer LDAP
> integration, of course.

These are all valid suggestions and thoughts - it would be best to
outlines Pros/Cons (in their own threads) of what is being proposed
versus what is deployed to make a full reasonable assessment.  We'd
also need to tie-in the gallery and Gnats, etc to LDAP :-)

> If people are not 'comfortable' with Plone because they don't know what
> it is or _how_ it is, that's natural. However, if we were to continue
> with PHP then I would be very much against adopting some ready made CMS
> and would rather continue to use our own code.

I'm not so much "comfortable" or not - I'm just making sure we have enough
buy-in so that if/when you decide to stop wanting to work on this others
can step forward and relieve you.

> Frankly, this can be an endless discussion and everyone has an opinion.
> This is like saying, I want the color blue to be our theme color. There
> simply is no 'right' answer.

Not really - we are not talking preference here as much as soliciting
buy-in and getting confirmation that 3-4 people say "Yes, OK - I'm for
it and I will help out with the new website and I will do my homework
(learning Zope/Python/Plone) so that I'm actually productive and I
commit to assisting" instead of putting this entire task on one person's
shoulders.

> The only challenge Plone provides is that there aren't as many Python
> Zope hackers as there are PHP hackers.

Yeah, that's my concern - if we can get some kind of assurances that
our needs will continue to be addressed then it might not be an issue.

> Then again, most of the Zope hackers know their stuff whereas you have
> to weave through a thousand php hacker to find someone who knows what
> they are doing.

I caution _very_ much against relying on any outside help (those Zope
hackers noted above) to fix any problems we might have in the future.
It would be ideal to be able for us to stand on our two feet instead
of relying on external help.  If a serious bug or a serious missing
module is needed, I don't think it would be smart for us to sit around
and continue to mail-in "help us" requests to Zope/Plone mailing-lists.
So again, we need a group of well versed committed people to give their
buy-in to this effort for us to rely on them instead.

> but if you had the guts to go with what is obviously technologically 
> superior.. well, you know what to do.

This has nothing to do with guts - I'm being a bit conservative since
future changes/alterations/additions will fall on the shoulders of those
that manage the place.  Buying an appliance with only Japanese instructions
hasn't panned out for me in the past, so I'm just being careful about
what it is one is looking to jump into and taking every precaution possible
to make sure we're covered in case we need help/assistance.

> I think I'm done with this topic. I'll just sit back and listen/read ;)

I hope not - this is a discussion after all.  I'm by no means condemning
anything and/or have made up my mind.  As noted, I just want to make it
abundantly clear what it is we are getting ourselves into and seeing if
this concern is echoed by the local community or not.  When all is said
and done, we'll all have to live and upkeep whatever we decide on.

Salam.

 - Nadim


		
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