On Fri, 2004-10-01 at 14:53, Arafat Medini wrote: NOTE: Please keep these discussions on the 'forum' [1] mailing-list. > From my starting at arabeyes three years ago till today, and the project > was a big playground for ppl who were jaleous about it and about its > existence. We all know them, and we all know how HARD the fights about > the power in Arabeyes were and still are, take fedora as an example or > take some suspicious papers as another example. This is natural, it's a side-effect of any success -- and we move on. > And I think with these new elections the Arabeyes core members show > blantly that they lost the fight. For me these elections don't show "our Not really. I can tell you this, elections were planned from the first day Arabeyes was started. It was never planned to be something that Nadim and I would be doing for the rest of our lives (and I only mention Nadim and myself since we have been in core since its inception -- while others have come and gone). Maybe I shouldn't speak for Nadim here (or anyone else) -- but I can assure you that I don't plan to be involved in Arabeyes forever. > willingness to renew the blood of the project" but the reality that the > core-members don't have the commitment (the energy ? the money? the > time?) to fight for what they installed some years ago. I think we have and always will fight for Arabeyes' goals and objectives. We have had our discussions (some more passionate than others) and our differences (internally and externally). It does make me feel proud that at the very least, internally we are able to resolve our differences and reach a common ground in most if not all cases. > The project can be compared to some app with a front-end and a back-end. > The core members were the back-end ensuring that the whole project is > still healthy and alive whereas we the front-end were working hard to > deliver a compelling product. I for myself don't want to think about > legal and organizational stuff inside Arabeyes, I simply want to deliver > my pos and make the gnu tools kick ass. > And that is what you and every other member of the project is expected to do. However, I tend to agree with Alkarouri's analogy of most members acting as thin clients, throwing back most of the work on core. Managing Arabeyes _is_ a full-time job, believe me (and I think you are aware of that). The point is, in order to give you more rights on how you want to the project to go, you get to vote for the people who manage the project. It's only logical. Not only that, but most importantly, it allows for a more smooth transition. One of the most important things about Arabeyes is that it was founded on the basis that it would survive regardless of a given individual's commitment -- thus becoming a 'project' but no one's project. It's our project, not mine, not yours not one particular person or small elite group. If we continue to appoint core members by other core members, this system will soon fall apart. The people who contribute their time and energy should have a say on who core gets to pick. > Instead of us concentrating on the REAL problems awaiting us, SO MANY > problems which are not solved, we simply begin to start playing with the > stability of the project in introducing new ppl to fields they should > not be interested in. Not because they are not good but because of our > problems: The core elections are not meant to deviate our focus from the real issues. We are trying to make it as quick and low-profile as possible. But, as with anything of that nature, these types of discussions will happen and will pass -- and we move on. > Too few ppl, no real mass translations! SO FEW MAN even after all these > years! > Too few skilled ppl to roll out quality work and define standards. > Too few standardized papers to ease cooperation with other groups. > No real cooperation with other groups. > No REAL answers to attacks from the outside and the inside. > etc... etc... Yes, too few people in general. That is a general problem that would not be resolved overnight. > And instead of us coming together, working together and being for eg. > present and discuss our problems in the IRC etc... NO we are only hungry > for power, well you not me... > I don't think about it this way. I don't think there is a power struggle to become core. In fact, I fear that we will not get enough people to nominate themselves. Most people who take up an interest in core and sit through our meetings, quickly realize that it isn't just 4 guys sitting around dictating how things will be. There is actual work to be done. Others, simply don't care to get involved in these things (like yourself) -- which is perfectly fine. Not everyone wants to be president. > Instead of thinking about these problems we are hurrying for elections! > What will bring us these elections? Come on, only cz some ppl said there > is no democracy in Arabeyes we'll hurry up in giving ppl the opportunity > to be the new "sheikh alqabila" at Arabeyes? ... How hungry are we for > power? would I ask... Arabeyes at the end a playground for power-hungry > ppl? No more workplace and commitment? > Like I said above, but I will repeat, the elections are not a reaction to some people's complaints. It was something that was planned (but perhaps not communicated in writing) since the very beginning of Arabeyes and the creation of core. Think about this -- if all current core members suddently disappear and are nowhere to be found online. What would happen to Arabeyes? There is no 'system' in place to deal with these types of things and elections (although not bullet proof) are an attempt to safeguard the project from this. > > [..] > > electing a president who never practiced politics. And in this regard I Doesn't that happen in real life? ;) > see these elections as not beneficial to us, the core members themselves > didn't ask us when they decided to make these elections and for myself I > see this as a BIG mistake, no discussion were held, so where is the REAL > democracy in this process??? no qualified person, no real discussion, no > real argument.... Well for me this elections are not democratic! A > reaction to some internal mood at the core group? > Not quite. We brought this up for people to give feedback back in August. I'm sure there are other references, but this is where the discussion [2] fo the details began. > What I am afraid of, and what is also clear for me, is that groups and > ppl who don't know what Arabeyes is simply can change the track of the Not if the people who are voting are the actual contributors. You give your vote and others will. At the end of the day, the direction would be more or less what the members of the project want. If the members of Arabeyes want to take run the project to the ground, so be it (but I highly doubt it). > project, that only cz ppl are busy or bored they step down from their > responsabilities and that at the end like the Arabic regimes we'll > become a playground for untrained ppl living their power illusions and > enjoy being a "leader".... > I can tell you that at least, for me, I didn't come into core knowing how to do things. I learned as I went along. I am sure it is the same for most people. [1] http://lists.arabeyes.org/mailman/listinfo/forum [2] http://lists.arabeyes.org/archives/forum/2004/August/msg00000.html -- ------------------------------------------------------- | Mohammed Elzubeir | Visit us at: | | | http://www.arabeyes.org/ | | Arabeyes Project | Homepage: | | Unix the 'right' way | http://elzubeir.openius.com/| -------------------------------------------------------
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