Re: Fedora and New projects

[Youcef Rabah Rahal <rahal at arabeyes dot org>]

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Salam,

On Sunday 09 May 2004 19:41, Nadim Shaikli wrote:

> I'm really unsure of Fedora's inclusion status ?  Will the translation work
> that has already taken shape (due to great efforts and sacrifice of a
> select few) be included ?  If not, why not ?

It won't be included in FC2, but will be there in FC3, so there's no problem 
really and nothing is lost. It would have been great to have Arabic in FC2, 
but from the beginning, that was not the goal, it was just a last minute hope 
;) Read below.

> While on the topic - why is it that we are working on projects that are
> simply not using our work (Debian's installer (d-i) and now Fedora) ?  Why
> can't we get assurances about our works inclusion _BEFORE_ we start
> translating ?  I think Arabeyes has enough clout and history to say that if
> we give our word that a certain bit of work will get done, then that means
> it will in fact happen.  So I highly highly recommend that we start taking
> a more logical track with regard to what it is that we work on - we need
> first to get assurances that our work will be accepted and ONLY then to
> start working on it.

OK. We started to work on Fedora on March 12th. The _scheduled_ freeze date to 
include translations in FC2 was a month later. We were not (I wasn't 
personally) planning to include Arabic in FC2 since the available time was 
very short. However, a big effort was put on translation just after the 
freeze happened (mainly by Ossama, but from others too), but it was already 
too late as I said in many posts (check the archives). However, Ossama 
insisted (and translated ;) so I (we) thought that maybe there was a chance 
for a late inclusion. I contacted Fedora people and they finally said, no, 
it's too late, but Arabic will be in FC3.

Conclusion, Arabic inclusion was not planned for FC2 and it didn't happen, so 
everyting is normal/logical and nothing will be lost. But of course the goal 
now is (as it always was) FC3, and Arabic will _be_ there no matter what ;-) 
Even if we stopped translation today until the release of FC3  (90% done 
already, though this will lower a little if we don't translate anymore ;)

> I realize there is history with all of this.  With regard to d-i it was
> to get Bidi included (which didn't happen) and so we thought we'd pressure
> them if we have 100% translations completed (bad idea and it didn't work)
> and with Fedora I think we simply missed the boat entirely with regard to
> deadlines and thought we could pressure inclusion if the work was
> completed. As we can see, the pressure'ing tactics based on completed work
> simply don't seem to work - we need to pressure them based on our user base
> (ie. number of users and possible market clout).  We also need to be more
> integrated with said projects - in other words, we need to constantly tell
> those projects that we need Arabic support from day-1 and continue the
> pressure (akin to what Arafat.Medini has been doing to fix the various
> Gnome bugs) - being involved and consistent with those external projects
> I'm guessing carries alot more weight than a fully translated set of .PO
> files (and I'm not taking anything away from anyone).

Again, d-i and Fedora are two totally different cases... And we did not miss 
any boat for Fedora: we are on the quay watching a boat leaving  but the 
tickets we bought are for the next boat ;)

Salam,

- -- 
Youcef R. Rahal
Arabeyes.org
http://www.arabeyes.org/~rahal
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