Re: Arabeyes Charter Proposal

[Nadim Shaikli <shaikli at yahoo dot com>]

On Thu, 14 Mar 2002 19:34:45 -0600
  "Mohammed Elzubeir" <elzubeir at arabeyes dot org> wrote:
> 
> On Thu, Mar 14, 2002 at 04:56:53PM -0800, Nadim Shaikli wrote:
> > 
> >    With Chahine's "is only between one person and the coordinator" comment
> >    above leads me to the following statement - all conflicts are between
one
> >    person and someone else (or a group); so what's being said here ?  Are
> >    votes only to be taken on group conflicts ? what about a single person
> >    who's in disagreement - the so-called coordinator decides ?
> 
> If it's only one person who is in disagreement, of course. Even if there
> was a vote, that would be the case anyway.. where is the confusion?
> 
> > 2. I'm utterly confused.  Your reply above doesn't refute the paragraph
> >    ending with "Hmmm..." - how does structure and hierarchy resolve
> >    conflicts naturally when its been implied that authority and position
> >    will not be an issue in settling any points ?
> > 
> > As for the need for titles - I can only say that its a truly sad idea!
> > And in my opinion a major factor into all these problems/issues.
> 
> You are completely missing the point and keep saying titles/names.. this
> is about accountability. It's about "RESPONSIBILITY".. which part of
> that is confusing?

If it were about accountability, then drop the names and titles and 
elevate the project above everyone (you, me, him, ...) and ink out tasks
and deliverables (yes details) people should be "accountable" for and
time-lines for delivery.  Remove any doubts about any potential sought-after
or implicit personal gains by attempting to gain and seeking a purity of
purpose.

> > Clarification - the votes I was after are only for things "that might
> > have conflicting views" (as is noted above) and not for any "minor issues"
> > (we survived 6 months with MAJOR progress without so much as a hiss, mind
> > you and there were plenty of disagreements and give-n-take).
> 
> And based on what? What's major and what's minor? Who decides? Such
> things are minimized by the charter. Example, is when I made the
> decision to translate "KDE" one way, and Isam didn't appreciate that,
> prior consultation. Is that major? I still don't think it was, but I can
> understand why it wasn't appreciated.
> 
> If you want me to give examples of every case of discontent or
> disagreement that has occurred and how this charter would have
> potentially prevented I will, but I'm pretty sure it will be a waste of
> time, since it won't change your mind -- and you have voted already
> anyway (I have no incentive to try to persuade one way or the other). 

If the 2-parties on opposite ends can't come to a conclusion a vote is
called-for to help them out.

> > 
> > Maybe in a different thread, I could be educated onto why (in detail and
> > in bruising truth) you think "it didn't" work (as is noted above).
> 
> Let me add to what Chahine has said, and that about structure. Maybe you
> never wanted structure, but if you are serious about a project, and not
> just a "let's have fun", then a structure is not only important but
> mandatory. And like Chahine said, point me to a project that has no
> structure. 

Having hierarchy doesn't necessarily mean anything - Enron anyone ?
How many projects out there are Bazaar vs. Cathedral and which has most
linux projects adopted (including linus).

> If you are unhappy with your proposed role and responsibilities then
> that is another issue. I am assuming that it was picked because of the
> tremendous effort you have put in campaigning for the project, and the
> PR work you have done. 

I've done a variety of things (if memory serves), but I can't say that
I will undertake PR.  I will do what I can to bring linux to Arabs without
getting in the way of any of you coordinators.

> And by the way, l10n is not limited to translation work. Things like the
> xkb and as such are also l10n. If it were limited to translation it
> would have been called "Translation Coordinator". 
> 
> Isam, it's time for your vote. Please think very carefully before you
> make a choice, because this will have a tremendous impact on the way
> Arabeyes will function from here on. 
> 
> I vote yes.

Isam's vote is irrelevant (per your charter) - even if he votes no
the decision's been made.

 - Nadim


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