Re: Re: Unicode Font Maker

["Mete Kural" <metek at touchtonecorp dot com>]

Hello Meor,

Hmm... Does IE justification add tatweel between lam and alef even with the SIL Scheherzade font? Can you test that?

Thanks,
Mete

---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: Meor Ridzuan Meor Yahaya <meor dot ridzuan at gmail dot com>
Reply-To: General Arabization Discussion <general at arabeyes dot org>
Date:  Tue, 2 Aug 2005 14:57:39 +0800

>Thomas,
>Are you suggesting that the font is a tremendous improvement because
>the font does not have any ligature? This is a sincere questions, not
>to belittle you. I would like to share my experience in this regards.
>Although I'm neither a professional font developer nor expert in the
>field, I do find a problem with fonts without ligature. Of course ,
>this can be solve, but need some consideration.
>
>Actually, I've done some work on this to the extend that all typical
>ligature is replaced, and I would say the font I develop is good. The
>font does have more alternatives then just lam alef sequence. I've
>sent a screenshot of the font to Mete, and Gregg if I'm not mistaken.
>The positive point about it is that software will be able to display
>an individual glyph with different colors. Plus, this approach will
>definately works under Linux without any problems. So, that is the
>plus side.
>On the other hand, with this type of font, we will need some serious
>work when trying to justify a text /paragraph. Paul Nelson describe on
>Microsoft page that IE 5.5 supposedly have 3 mode for arabic
>justification: inter-word, tatweel and newspaper (if I'm not mistaken)
>Anyway, basically here's how the 3 mode should work:
>1. Inter word: inserting spaces between words. This is the most
>typical type of justification for any script.
>2. Tatweel : this is specific to arabic, and the most common method for arabic.
>3. Newspaper : spaces inserted inter-word and some intra-word. I'm not
>so sure if tatweel is used.
>
>Anyway, that's the theory. When I try to use it (by using CSS), guess
>what? The inter-word key does not work! It still insert tatweel here
>and there. So, what is the problem? Just imagine a tatweel inserted
>between lam and alef ! That is just an example, althgouh they might be
>smart enough not to do that. Anyway, I can confirmed that tatweel will
>be inserted , and we can't really control it. So, maybe not for lam
>alef, but sequence like yeh reh will difinitely be effected. And is
>does look wierd.
>
>After I found this problem, I stop further improving the font. I hope
>this can be solved, but not sure how. Of course, this is not a major
>issue, bt I do not want to waste my time much on something that might
>not work. Just want to share my experience  with people here. This is
>one of the reason why I mentioned before that I really would like to
>see people work seriously on Arabic justification problem.
>
>Regards.
>
>On 8/1/05, Thomas Milo <t dot milo at chello dot nl> wrote:
>> Here is a tremendous improvement over Microsoft's "Arabic Typesetting" font.
>> By simply omitting all ligatures (even al-laah is absent!), SIL managed to
>> produce two fonts that avoid making a mockery of the Islamic calligraphic
>> tradition, while offering basic legibility for the whole range of supported
>> Unicode characters. Not bad at all.
>>
>> The fonts do indeed look awfully familiar: one of them is in fact described
>> as being "in a similar style as the Monotype naskh". Similar in style in
>> this case is an artistic euphemism. The new naskh (called Scheherazade and
>> for some reason spelled as in German -  Persian: ÔçÑÒÇÏ Shahrzad) ) has the
>> exact same tell-tale design blunders as the Monotype naskh, in the letters
>> Sad and Tah: the top penstroke of the Sad extends under the base line in all
>> positions (which in naskh is the case in non-final position only), the top
>> penstroke of the Tah erroneously extends under the base line in middle
>> position: here clearly some un-initiated employee mixed up Sad and Tah
>> morphology, as the top penstroke of Tah never extends below the base line.
>> Monotype in turn made these mistakes when copying the 1924 King Fuad naskh
>> with only superficial knowledge of the subject matter (that this was in fact
>> the case can be seen from additional tell-tale mistakes that Monotype failed
>> to intercept when aorking from the Fuad naskh, and that, indeed, made their
>> way into all Monotype successive clones including these latest ones).
>>
>> The accumulated mistakes of the Fuad naskh and the Monotype naskh found
>> their way into the SIL naskh, so these latest fonts stand firmly in the
>> Arabic typographic tradition. But it's a free download, so only professional
>> type designers can complain.
>>
>> Together with the Gentium transcription font SIL succeeded in enabling
>> scholars to prepare their publications in Unicode format, so that
>> professional typesetters can ignore these public domain fonts without losing
>> essential information.
>>
>> t
>>
>>
>> Connie Bobroff wrote:
>> > Dear All,
>> >
>> > You might like these new, free, unicode Arabic fonts.  They contain
>> > the Persian characters as well.
>> >
>> >
>> http://scripts.sil.org/cms/scripts/page.php?site_id=nrsi&item_id=ArabicFonts
>> >
>> > Windows users want to download the "Open Type" version and
>> > Mac users need the "AAT".
>> >
>> >
>> > -Connie
>> >
>> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> >  ~  The ADABIYAT email list for Middle Eastern Literary Traditions   ~
>> >  ~  Archives (http://www.listserv.emory.edu/archives/adabiyat.html)  ~
>> >
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Conni
>> e Bobroff wrote:
>> > Dear All,
>> >
>> > You might like these new, free, unicode Arabic fonts.  They contain
>> > the Persian characters as well.
>> >
>> >
>> http://scripts.sil.org/cms/scripts/page.php?site_id=nrsi&item_id=ArabicFonts
>> >
>> > Windows users want to download the "Open Type" version and
>> > Mac users need the "AAT".
>> >
>> >
>> > -Connie
>> >
>> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> >  ~  The ADABIYAT email list for Middle Eastern Literary Traditions   ~
>> >  ~  Archives (http://www.listserv.emory.edu/archives/adabiyat.html)  ~
>> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> Mete Kural wrote:
>> >> I'm forwarding this email about font tools from the unicode list
>> >> since it is relevant to the recent discussion:
>> >>
>> >> ---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
>> >> From: John Hudson <tiro at tiro dot com>
>> >> Date:  Thu, 28 Jul 2005 09:55:31 -0700
>> >>
>> >> Adam Reisman wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> Can anyone recommend a program I can use to design unicode fonts?
>> >>
>> >> Professional tools:
>> >> http://www.fontlab.com/Font-tools/FontLab-4.6/
>> >> http://www.fontlab.com/Font-tools/AsiaFont-Studio/
>> >> http://www.fontmaster.nl/english/
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Cheaper options:
>> >> http://www.fontlab.com/Font-tools/TypeTool/
>> >> http://www.high-logic.com/fcp.html
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Free tools:
>> >> http://fontforge.sourceforge.net/
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> There is also a new shareware tool available from
>> >> http://www.cr8.netfirms.com/index10.html
>> >> but I have not tried it.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> If you are interested in developing OpenType fonts with glyph
>> >> substitution and
>> >> positioning, you will also want to take a look at Microsoft's free
>> >> VOLT tool: http://www.microsoft.com/typography/VOLT.mspx
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> I recommend reading most of the developer links at the MS typography
>> >> website http://www.microsoft.com/typography
>> >> even if your target system is not Windows.
>> >>
>> >> John Hudson
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >>
>> >> Tiro Typeworks        www.tiro.com
>> >> Vancouver, BC        tiro at tiro dot com
>> >>
>> >> Currently reading:
>> >> Between silk and cyanide, by Leo Mark
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Mete Kural
>> >> Touchtone Corporation
>> >> 714-755-2810
>> >> --
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> General mailing list
>> >> General at arabeyes dot org
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>>
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>

--
Mete Kural
Touchtone Corporation
714-755-2810
--