On Tue, Aug 27, 2002 at 11:09:13AM -0700, Anas Al-Moosa wrote:
> al-salam..
> well,after reading your letter,i got the following in
> my mind:
> it is impossible for the project to work in the
> same speed, if it has the same guys working for it.it
> is usual for guys to have different circumstances with
> time.due to the project being so large,people working
> on it come and go. the number of people must be large
> enogh,so the project speed will be constant.so, the
> problem here is the lake of people,as i think it is.
> so lets take about this one.
That is true for translation. Generally translators
have a very short lifespan (compared to say, developers).
Other than that most people might find translation
to be boring, it is hard to identify with. In other words,
if you have developer X who has written application Y,
they are more likely to continue working on it. There
is a connection, a bond.
This makes translation work even harder, and perhaps
less rewarding. This is why I'm asking for opinions
on the subject. We have discussed much of this before,
but a renewal of the discussion can't really hurt (seeing
that work has overall come to a near complete halt for
awhile).
> first, i have to note that me, my self is not an
> active translator, nor developer. I just help with
> advertisement for now.
That is a type of contribution that we most certainly need.
Not everyone has to be everything ;) Your feedback
is very much appreciated, as well as needed.
> I will talk about the lake of subscriptions for the
> site, not the retreat of the work in the project. Also
> I don?t have experience with project management, so I
> may be wrong or right, but don?t take my suggestions
> as criticizes. Every thing down there is just an
> analyzation.may be good and may be stupid analyzation
Criticism is needed.. constructive criticism that is,
like this one ;)
> First, let?s divide the problem into smaller parts:
> lake of developers (strictly computer science
> students) , & lake of ordinary people, witch mainly
> will just translate
>
Not necessarily true. Translators need to at least be
Linux/*BSD users. If you don't use the platform, why
would you translate its interface? To localize it for
who?
Also, a translator would need to be familiar with
computer terminology in order for one to make the proper
translation.
In other words, I wouldn't take "translators" and make it
sounds like an easy thing. It's not. And all the work
that has been done has really had a great impact on
Arabization.
> 1- There is some thing odd about CVS, (download winCVS
That's where it goes wrong. WinCVS is strongly discouraged.
If you read the CVS HOWTO (which is available in English
and Arabic) you will see what you need to do exactly.
http://www.arabeyes.org/howto/cvs-howto/
http://www.arabeyes.org/howto/cvs-howto.ar/
If you can identify problems with the documents please do
note them so we can adapt them.
> from the original site, install it, BOOM,
> the program warned the man to download python & perl,
> he never heard about them. any way
> browse for any file you want ? download? work ? see if
> there r any updates for the file ... then
> you upload the file.), ????!!! Come on, that is not
> any ones work, we are not talking about (object
> oriented programming) procedures & change management,
> we are talking about, person x, who
> always used windows. & just want to
> translate(participate with work), we must make it easy
> for him?.
You are right, CVS is not easy to conceptualize. However,
it is far simpler than it sounds. It is also simply the
only way to manage a project of this size.
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> I suggest a simple CVS interface, for ordinary users.
> I don?t mean a whole project, just any interfacing
> Method we can get up with,even a humanoid one
> (look at the second suggestion)
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
I am not sure what you mean here. Are you suggesting we
write a cvs client? I think that is beyond the scope
of the Arabeyes project.
> 2- do you remember couple of days ago, when that guy
> sent: ?you are just sending emails for me,if you don?t
> have any tasks I will go?. Well, even nobody liked his
> way, it seems that he didn?t know how to really help,
> and I mean really help, not just what can he help
> with.
> He(like me at the beginning ),went to the mailing list
> expecting to be told to (do that , and do this with
> somebody ,..etc)
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> I suggest a tasking method, I mean teams, e.g. every
> Knowledgeable guy takes responsibility for a punch
> Of guys, and give them Strict TASKS (PO files, for
> example)
> And tell them what to do
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
This misconception about our mailing-list is probably
a result of our early campaigns for help. The single-most
important thing was to be able to reach as many people
as possible who are interested. It was also prior to much
of the current Arabeyes infrastructure.
A man walks into a room, after reading about it on a flyer.
It says they need help. He walks in.. wanders about.
Everyone seems to be working on something.. walks out.
Had that man introduced himself, people would have noticed.
Of course, we do need a mechanism to make it obvious that
an introduction is needed. That's why we have the menu
item on the front-page ("Want To Join"), under it you have
everything you need to start.
> 3- Have you seen commercial sites, they put a big
> Banner ?(new user? sign Up now).
> I think that will be enough push for some body to know
> where he can sign for a CVS account
> to help, even if he don?t know what is a CVS for. or
> at least that HE will (catch) the first part of the
> twine. ;)
http://www.arabeyes.org/register.php
linked to from every page.
> 4- Any way, why those guys doesn?t bother to look at
> the whole site? So they can see every thing and learn
> every thing they need?.well, they don?t have time :)
> ,probably any Arab citizen is online from a Dial-up
> account (and, his parents are yelling wants the
> telephone line) or from an internet caf? (witch is
> not a comfortable place to read every thing from),
No one is expected to browse through the entire site.
But if you are interested in contributing to a project,
you are certainly expected to know what it's about.
That would require some browsing, yes. If the person
doesn't have time for that, they probably don't have
time for anything to contribute with.
> 5 - may be some guys are getting lost in the
> homepages of the needed programs,(e.g. cygwin ).
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> why sending the user to the homepage or to the
> sourceforge
> of the program they need, why not a direct link or
> mirroring the file
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
For several reasons. You give Cygwin is an example. Cygwin
is a very fast evolving collection of pieces of software.
It is always better to direct the person to the original
source.
Another reason (for less complex pieces of software), is
that we simply don't have the bandwidth for it.
> 6- I`m not sure yet, but is the Qamoos is a program
> for off-line (Qamoosing) , it will be great, because I
>
> downloaded the 1.4 ver from the SORCEFOURGE,I didn?t
> know how to run it,(if it can be used by
> windows) ???
QaMoose is written in Perl, so yes, it should run on
Windows. Though I am not aware of anyone who has confirmed
running it under Windows. What you downloaded is the actual
program, not the dictionary. People often confuse that
with the content. The trick here is the description,
"user-defined".. in the QaMoose "About" section. That
implies that the user is the one who creates
the dictionary. QaMoose is a tool to manage it.
But just for the record, when you have questions of this
nature, do ask them. Right away!
>
> 7- I think that ordinary people need (algorithmic)
> guidance
> e.g : do that then do this,after that do those.so you
> can get what you want?.(like a manual)
This applies more to development projects than translation.
Translation is done the same way, the first time and the
time after.. You grab the files, translate, put them back
in the repository, translate, put them back in the repository,
etc.
> even worse, cause of the (Dial-up) problem, getting
> linux is harder than getting others,you Don?t find
> linux in the computer shops ,?except for the
> somehow-spread redHat, nothing there.(I?m talking
> about Jordan, where I study)
Jordan ;) Looks like you are close to our localization
coordinator, Isam.. who I hope will be back with us sooner
than later -- you really appreciate how much work someone's been
donig when they are gone ;)
later - and thank you for your input.
--
-------------------------------------------------------
| Mohammed Elzubeir | Visit us at: |
| | http://www.arabeyes.org/ |
| Arabeyes Project | Homepage: |
| Unix the 'right' way | http://fakkir.net/~elzubeir/|
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