Re: Harakat is broken in Qt

[Mohammed Yousif <mhdyousif at gmx dot net>]

On Friday 08 August 2003 08:59, Munzir Taha Obeid wrote:

> On Monday 04 August 2003 10:08 am, Mohammed Yousif wrote:
> >      and it's ALWAYS ABOVE the letter, Shadda means to extend
> >      the haraka voice (as in Mohammed, why I put two m's? simply
> >      because there is a shadda on the m and when I transliterated it,
> >      I added another m to give a good approximation to the actual
> >      voice "should be read Moham-med, think of them as separated
> >      words").
> >      So, if I typed a shadda then a fatha, I expect to see the letter in
> >      this order from below to above:
> >        1- the letter itself
> >        2- the shadda
> >        3- the fatha
> >      (Qt unfortunately doesn't follow this order and when you type a
> >       complete word, bom, the haraka disappears and only the shadda
> >       is shown)
>
> I think this depends on the font chosen and the application. Odd things
> happen here. kedit which is built on Qt with kacstqr font works perfectly
> with me.
>

 No, it should be done right and there shoudn't be odd things like that

> >     What if I typed a fatha then a shadda?
> >     It doesn't matter, a fatha is always _above_ the shadda.
> >     What if I typed a kasra then a shadda or vice versa?
> >     Still doesn't matter, a fatha is always _below_ the shadda.
>
> TYPO: a kasra is always _below_ the shadda.

 You are right, sorry :-)

>
> >     (Think of the shadda as a new little letter above the actual letter)
> >     So to summarize the shadda thing:
> >       * A Shadda is always above the letter.
> >       * Any haraka is applied to the letter before OR after the shadda
> >          is transferred to the shadda, that is, the shadda is now the
> >          letter that should have the haraka but above the actual letter.
>
> I don't agree that shadda is now the letter that should have the haraka,
> especially in the case of kasra. See the comment below.
>
> >       * Harakat applied to a shadda are: fatha, kasra, damma and tanween
> >         but this shouldn't be an issue, Qt may decide to ignore this and
> > put any T character above the shadda except kasra and kasratan which
> > should be below the shadda.
>
> Not necessarily below the shadda. In case of kasra it could be below the
> letter or below the shadda both are correct but may be it's better to be
> below the letter as is the case in Holy Quran and as implemented already in
> kedit.
>

 You are right again, sorry, I meant that but kasra came to my mind
 only after I had posted it :-)


> >       * In any arrangement, the shadda is ALWAYS ABOVE the letter even
> >         if it has kasra or kasratan applied to it, it should STAY ABOVE
> > the letter.
> >       * A shadda without a haraka results in a FAULTY arabic, and this
> > should be caught by spellcheckers, however this maybe ignored by the
> > shaping engine.
>
> I am not sure from where did you bring this info!! I think if I write
> Arabic without harakat it's not considered FAULTY. Also, if I typed some
> harakat and left others it's also not FAULTY. Shadda can't stands alone is
> something new for me!!

 Because a Shadda means to extend the haraka not the letter, so it makes
 less sense without a haraka, but we used to see a shadda alone assuming
 that we know which haraka to apply the shadda to but this is simply not
 good.
 And yeah, I see all arabic rules in the Holy Qur'an (although the reverse is
 not true, not all Qur'anic rules are Modern Arabic), although there are
 _indeed_ some letters without harakat, there is not a single shadda that
 is alone.
 Anyway, if you are not convinced, forget it, it shouldn't make any difference
 and this is why I noted spellcheckers, I meant that this is not an issue that
 bothers a rendering engine, it's rather a user oriented thing, so let's not
 waste time discussing this and concentrate on getting a rendering engine
 that is able to do harakat perfectly.


-- 
Mohammed Yousif
"Ich liebe ihr, weil ohne sie kann ich nicht bin!"
We _will_ restore OUR Jerusalem.