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Re: Fedora and Translation Teams

On Fri, Jun 25, 2004 at 05:05:02PM -0400, Sherif Abdelgawad wrote:

> > No, read the long emails. Reading it takes a shorter amount of time than
> > it takes for you to write this response.
> I guess it was mistake to even try to reply, thank .. no need for me to 
> read anything. Wasting my time.

Then why are you replying? ;) I think we all want to get this done in the
best way it can be for Arabic. 

> I am an arabic speaking person who has the right to object .. Who 
> ar YOU to talk like this? I stand to my right to object and 

Well, that explains it. You are Arabic speaking, so you object. I don't
mean to burst your bubble here, but I am questioning the rationale
behind the objection, not your mother tongue. I object to Fedora's
current system because I find it counter-productive for translations. I
clearly stated why it is so, and I pointed to other projects which have
been doing this successfully. You are objecting because you have the
right to? I'm not sure I follow the logic involved.

A logical reason would be, "Youcef and his team are doing a poor job, so
poor that it is beyond repair. I would like to take over his role and
fix those problems." Even with that, I would disagree, but at least it
is a somewhat logical reason. Your reason is, I have the right to. 

> it is not only me who object , yet it is not me who decide

Well, those who object should speak out then. Is it an embarassing

> [..]
> I did not acuse nor attacked arabyes so drop the defencive 
> tone here, and focus on the translation effort, after all
> this is fedora community not arabeyes community. I am talking
> about teams here composed from people regardless if they
> belong to certain group or lug.

You are right, I may be unnecessarily defensive. However, I am very well
aware of your feelings about Arabeyes as a whole -- which you made
abundantly clear in the past to other people.

> good so discuss the steps you want, tell the ppl here what
> you need instead of wasting time on attacking, be objetive,
> unless it is a mession that arabeyes.org is to claim it has
> all the arabization effort, and you are defencing that.

Oh no. Our mission is to bring Arabic to Linux and Unix, Arabeyes is but
a vehicle. I think your ill feelings about Arabeyes stem from the very
misunderstanding of what Arabeyes is. 

> [..]
> If I wanted to do anything I would have done it. I did release
> the module once I knew there is _someone_ who still activly
> translating it. I could not care less if it is arabeyes represntitive
> or normal person. I am entitle to my openion as an arabic speaking

Believe it or not, Arabeyes members are normal people (at least most of
us think of ourselves as normal ;). You are, however, contradicting
yourself. You don't mind releasing the module (which you have released
and taken and released, etc.) but you mind Youcef being the maintainer
(oh, because you have the right to?). I am rather perplexed by all that.

> person who would like to contribute in an open source project,
> and I am not taking any privilages over here, so stop acusing
> me as I never acused arabeyes. My openion about certain group

Yes you have. I have no intentions of digging into that -- I am simply
pointing out that you are already carrying some old baggage against
Arabeyes and so it should be noted. In other words, I don't take your
opinion as unbiased or objective -- and I ask others to consider this
when reading your opinions.

> [..]
> Are you threatening to leave unless I go away or not
> talk over here? I am not sure what is your problem?

Unfortunately (for me), and fortunately for the Arab Open Source
community, I do not have the say in this. I can simply suggest it.

> It seems you missing something here .. I never attacked
> arabeyes here nor acused you guys with anything, I said

You are right. Not here.

> I have issues with the translation here, did you ever
> care to ask me what are my concerns ? You always jump

I believe Youcef has asked you to explain your issues. This is why
Arabeyes exists, in case you haven't noticed. It provides an open forum
for people to discuss such issues. We setup QAC specifically for this.
You are still free to join the QAC and participate in forming such

> to defence blindly first, attacking and talk in such
> a way far from being professional. Yet, everytime you

It takes two to tango.

> greatly manage to make me regret to even do anything
> for the middle east or the arab ppl, or even think
> about translation.

That is your prerogative.

> Look here and see the emails before you attack .. I had
> no idea no intention to do anything , I did [not] claim that
> Arabeyes did not translate almost all the po files, 

I think it would help if you also think of Arabeyes as "The Arab Open
Source Community". We are not a commercial entity. I know you didn't say
that we were, but sometimes it is good to point it out.

> I found an object which needs translation, oh I have
> time now, then I decided to translate it. Took one full
> day to check the other translation so that my translation
> seems odd. Yet all what I get acusing "that person has
> nothing to do with translation" , "that person hates
> arabeyes" , "that person did not contribute ..etc"

I think everyone can appreciate such effort. Unfortunately, just like
with the current system at Fedora, it does not help -- kind of like a
student who gets A for effort but fails the class anyway.

> [..]
> me with bull. I would appreciate if you forget about me

You make it hard to forget about you ;)

> and just focus on translation if that is the real goal.
> If your real goal is Arabeyes to be the organization
> which have claim arabization of Fedora & Red Hat just
> state this and deal with a professional demand on that.

Once again, "claims" are a by-product, it is by no means a "mission".
If you think you can put together a team and coordinate yourself, then
great. We would then hope to be able to coordinate standards of
translations together. It so happens that Arabeyes handles a handful of
translation projects (among other things). So, coordinating with
Arabeyes, whether you wish to go at it alone or with Arabeyes, is in
Fedora's best interest.

> Perhaps I was totally wrong to even talk here. Wasted 
> my time and got accused. Have fun translating and 
> maintaing the arabic modules if you wish. 

Yes, then withrdraw your objection and let us continue to do the work we
have been doing since March 12, 2004.

> [..]

| Mohammed Elzubeir    | Visit us at:                 |
|                      |  http://www.arabeyes.org/    |
| Arabeyes Project     | Homepage:                    |
| Unix the 'right' way |  http://elzubeir.fakkir.net/ |

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