Re: emacs-bidi - funtional/ready, now what ?

[TAKAHASHI Naoto <ntakahas at m17n dot org>]

Sorry for my obscure statement in the last email.

Nadim Shaikli writes:

>> The current version never goes into the main tree.  Actually, it uses
>> algorithms that have already been rejected to be included.

> Any further details ?  Are there competing algorithms out there
> that are deemed "acceptable" ?

Eli Zaretskii, one of the most important Emacs developers, is writing
such a code.  I heard he has done to some extent and his code is
expected to be included in the main trunk once finished.

>> Advertising the current version is greatly welcome.

> I'm a bit confused.  If the algorithm has been rejected and passed
> over what's the plan then ?  Advertising the current code will
> certainly get testers (or we all hope so), but then what ?

First of all, we need to learn what kinds of functionalities people
want to have and what kind of user interface is preferable.  On the
other hand, the algorithm (namely, how they are implemented) does not
concern ordinary users; only Emacs developers care about it.

>> A "pollished" version will not do; a drastic change is required.

> Could you please elaborate on the "change".

Developers feel that the current emacs-bidi is not efficient enough.
We need to find an efficient way to integrate a bidi reordering
routine into Emacs' display engine.  I do not know well about Emacs'
display routine so I cannot explain more.  Sorry.

> Has RMS or the emacs developers given a clear statement on what it
> is that they'd like to see or not (URL) ?  Is there a means for us
> to elevate Bidi's inclusion on their list of things to do ?

I do not think any URL is available for now.  If someone writes a
summary, I can put it one the emacs-bidi web page.

> With most people short on time being the norm - is there a document or
> a set of people with enough acumen that can put all those thoughts and
> pointers into a document for someone to pick up ?

Not to my knowledge.

> I guess to the state the obvious - emacs will NEVER have Bidi support
> unless we make a clear and conscious decision to include it and abide
> by any rules RMS or others dictate along the way - I'm simply searching
> for a means to know how best to bring that forth; I wasn't aware that
> the current code was rejected (nor did I see any discussion about that).

Don't worry.  The core developers are aware of the necessity of bidi.
All we need is a programmer who
  1. knows Emacs' display engine, and
  2. is familiar with bidi concepts, and
  3. has time to write a code.

Yes, there are a few men who satisfy 1. and 2. above, but they are all
busy.  (You know how such people are rare and precious.)  If you
really want bidi support right now, you need to hire them.  Otherwise,
you need to wait for their voluntary work or do it yourself.

> What's m17n's position on this ?  It doesn't sound like you're going
> any further with it - anyway to change that aspect of thing ?

We keep adding new features to emacs-bidi.  Once GNU Emacs is equipped
with bidi support, we will port functionalities and interfaces
developed on emacs-bidi.

-- 
TAKAHASHI Naoto
ntakahas at m17n dot org
http://www.m17n.org/ntakahas/